[MUSIC]

Change is coming, oh yeah

Ain’t no holding it back

Ain't no running 

Change is coming, oh yeah!

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

This is Degrees: Real talk about planet-saving careers from Environmental Defense Fund. I’m your host, Yesh Pavlik Slenk. For the better part of the last decade, it’s been my job to help students use their talent and passion to get experience and jobs that serve the planet.

I’m so excited to bring you my conversation with Wes Gobar. He’s an environmental and racial justice advocate, writer and organizer. This year, Grist named him one of the top 50 people shaping the future of the planet for his work co-founding BlackOak Collective. It’s a career network growing green jobs for Black environmentalists and young professionals. Recently, they inked a partnership with Microsoft. 

They also work with historically Black colleges and universities to connect folks to internships and career opportunities. My favorite part about BlackOak Collective? They help members feel that they’re not alone. 

Wes Gobar: 

And I think that’s part of the idea behind BlackOak Collective is that you are not an island. There's tons of resources, experience, advice, and perspective to be able to draw upon.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

BlackOak Collective is Wes and his colleagues’ effort to even the green careers playing field and boost the representation of Black communities in these jobs. This is CRUCIAL to ensure the future of climate justice. 

But before we get into the details of BlackOak’s work, I want to take you back to when Wes was about to be a jobseeker himself, entering his senior year at the University of Virginia. He was on track to be an historian and was the president of the Black Student Alliance.   

Then, on the night of August 11, 2017 while Wes was celebrating his brother’s college graduation – something happened that would shake the campus…and, the entire nation…to the core. 

PBS NEWS HOUR CLIP 1:

At least one person is dead and several are injured tonight after protests and counter-protests turned violent…

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

Just five years ago -- you probably remember… hundreds of white supremacists rallied at a park in Charlottesville, Virginia.  

PBS NEWS HOUR CLIP 2: 

…waving confederate flags and chanting nazi-era slogans. They were soon surrounded by counter protestors with their own signs and chants. Shoving and fighting soon followed.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

Eventually, a white supremacist drove a car into a group of counter-protestors. One of them, Heather Heyer, was killed…Nineteen others were injured.*** 

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

Wes was organizing UVA students in the counter-protest. It was chaos. 

Wes Gobar: 

Being there and seeing them throwing water bottles with sort of like makeshift tear gas at us and we're using our protest signs and, you know, sort of back them off and then that was really the moment where it sort of clicked in place for me that the moment kind of needs more,that I have more to offer, that I think that I wanted to get involved in the immediate term.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

So, Wes wrote op-eds about quote, fighting the “deep roots of white supremacy in Charlottesville and at the University of Virginia” that were published in Vox and the Washington Post. And he started thinking about a career in politics. That summer he had interned on Capitol Hill with a Virginia congressman, and worked with the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation.

After graduating, he got a job as the executive aide to the Attorney General of Virginia, Mark Herring. The two traveled to community events all over the state.

One issue kept coming up over and over: the Atlantic Coast Pipeline.

Wes Gobar:

You know, whether it was driving through rural Virginia and you see large signs about how people don't want the pipelines, or showing up to an event in Richmond and, and folks coming up to us about it. Or even managing his, you know, the email and the letters and seeing the volume of traffic about this issue.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

A pair of energy companies -- Dominion and Duke Energy --  wanted to build an $800 billion dollar natural gas pipeline. It would run 600 miles through Virginia, West Virginia and North Carolina. 

Virginia’s then-governor, Ralph Northam, was a big fan. And federal regulators approved the energy company’s use of eminent domain to take people’s land for the pipeline.*******

But the people living up and down the route? Well, as you can imagine, they HATED it. Especially in one particular place. 

Wes Gobar: 

They were going to put a compressor station in a formerly emancipated community, a majority black community now called Buckingham County, where that's the most toxic part of the pipeline, right? So you have all of the worst pollution from the gas pipelines going into specifically Black communities. 

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

For context, a compressor plant emits toxins like methane and nitrous oxides. One report compares the emissions of a single plant to 2,000 diesel school buses running 24/7.* 

Union Hill Community member clip: 

If that pipeline comes through there’s no telling what might happen to us. Our lives will probably be at danger. And--- it’s just a shame because they’re bringing it right through the Black neighborhood. And it’s not right.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

That woman? She lives in the small rural town of Union Hill, in Buckingham County, Virginia. It was founded by formerly enslaved Africans after the Civil War.

When Wes heard people in Buckingham County were so upset about the pipeline, his historian brain lit up. He’d studied the Reconstruction Era, the post-civil war period when the federal government tried – and failed – to revitalize the southern economy. Enslaved people had been freed BUT they were commonly blocked from education, jobs and the right to vote.** 

To Wes, what was happening in Buckingham County in 2018 felt a lot like the injustices of Reconstruction…which eventually led to red lining, segregated neighborhoods and environmental injustice.   

Wes Gobar: 

If your community that was red lined 80, you know, 90 years ago uh, you now have higher energy bills, right?Your community is five degrees hotter, right? Uh, you are more likely to, to suffer first, you know, or be flooded in a climate disaster and then not get loans from the federal government. 

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

Or to have your land taken so an energy company could place an enormous natural gas compressor in your community.

But even with a job with the attorney general – Wes didn’t know what to do about it. 

Wes Gobar: 

I was sort of in this position, where I was seeing all the operations of this huge 400-person office, going to all these official events and feeling like I just didn't have much agency in these issues that I was starting to really develop an appreciation for.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

While he was learning about environmental justice issues for the first time…there was a movement gaining speed across the country that was about to sweep him up.

MUSIC IN 

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez:

…a new national, social, industrial and economic mobilization on a scale not seen since WWII and the New deal era…

Wes Gobar: 

That was happening for me around the same time that the green new deal just started to first get national attention.

Bernie Sanders: 

…a green new deal today and now, we need it. Because the planet is in crisis. 

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

When Wes started college, he’d planned on becoming an historian. Not any more. 

Wes Gobar: 

After doing a lot of student activism in school and seeing a lot of what was happening just politically around  I just didn't wanna wait for, to go into academia to get tenure, you know, write a book, someone to maybe read it, et cetera. You know, so on one side I was seeing the disproportionate impacts and the other, I was seeing sort of the, the possibility, and the energy in the climate movement. And I wanted to see, uh, myself and more people like myself and, you know, leading on the front lines of, of that movement. 

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

In January of 2020, Wes found a job working for an environmental policy group called Evergreen Action. He didn't actually knowmuch about environmental policy when he started, but he couldn’t wait to learn. As the organization evolved, so did Wes. 

Wes Gobar: 

And so I was just did a little bit of everything from the start with Evergreen, right.  You know, getting a lot of their administrative stuff and contracts in order, and then to doing copy editing and research. And then as their deputy press secretary, I was drafting a lot of their written materials and their tweets and press releases. 

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

And he started writing policy – a move that felt really significant. Evergreen was working on housing issues. In particular, Wes was researching two issues where racial justice and environmental problems intersected to create a LOT of suffering.  

Wes Gobar: 

For example, we had a paper on housing retrofits and, and electrification, and I was doing a lot  research and writing and framing for that on  racial justice and redlining and sacrifice zones and how a lot of those map up one to one. 

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

Sacrifice zones. They’re neighborhoods where the air pollution is so bad that people living there have much higher rates of cancer than people who live just a mile or two away. Their lives are actually shorter. They’re usually in communities of color and low income neighborhoods.

And here’s the really awful thing: the EPA, politicians, they all know it. **** 

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

After the break, you’ll hear how everything Wes was learning at Evergreen Action, motivated him to do something about that. 

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

Many people living in these sacrifice zones, don’t have a voice in the environmental movement. 

Working with Evergreen Action, Wes was getting more involved with the growing movement pushing for a green economy. Then, he got a promotion to Coalitions Lead, which meant he helped Evergreen partner with other environmental groups. 

And as he met more and more people in the field, he saw there actually were powerful Black voices fighting for the planet. 

Wes Gobar: 

I looked around the movement and I saw a lot of  mentors and people who did look like me and I'm gonna talk about the disparities in positions of leadership and in organizations and how much work we need to do -- but the folks who are leading environmental justice work  who are black people who are doing mainstream climate work, they are kicking ass.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

While Wes had great mentors and knew where to find resources, he didn’t feel like most Black climate jobseekers did. The only place he knew to share them was a college listserv. Friends of his were doing the same.

Wes Gobar:

We were sending around all these environmental jobs and we were like, Hey, wait a minute. Like, we need to make sure these are getting to the right people and especially, you know, Black people getting these jobs. We are also in this moment where we've seen tons of Black people start their own organizations -- since 2020, because like we're in a moment of racial reckoning and environmental justice reckoning, right.  Tons of big green organizations were at the receiving end of that reckoning in 2020 and during, you know, Black lives matter.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

Big greens, huge environmental non profits are getting most of the funding. Local  grassroots organizations and environmental justice organizations have a much harder time finding funding.

Wes Gobar: 

There’s such a disparity in funding. So like last year donors sent $471 billion to nonprofits, less than 2% went to environmental orgs. 

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

That 2% means that around 8 billion dollars went to ALL environmental organizations. And of that 2 percent,...

Wes Gobar: 

Environmental justice organizations received less than a half of percent. 

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

That's terrible.

Wes Gobar: 

It is terrible. It's terrible. And I think a lot of folks have decided to start our own organizations. And we actually want to, um, advocate for a lot of the issues that are aff --   directly affecting and disproportionately affecting Black communities. And also fight for our own vision of like, what does liberation look like? 

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

What does liberation look like? 

For Wes, this is where BlackOak Collective came into play. By the fall of 2020, he and his co-founders -- Miles Braxton and Sarah Nesbit --  had launched their green jobs support network by -- and for -- young Black professionals.

Wes Gobar: 

The BlackOak Collective is a rapidly growing networking organization, building a home for the many Black environmental communities across DC, Maryland, and Virginia.  We focus on mutual support, collaboration, resource sharing, and jobs and mentorship for, for Black people doing a wide variety of environmental work. 

We consider ourselves kind of like a bridge . No matter which part of the movement that you're at.  If you are fighting for that, you know, vision yourself or if you're looking to support people who are in, you know, mainstream environmental organizations or if you are in the solar industry,  and make sure that, you know, Black and brown communities are at the center of that work.  

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

BlackOak puts on virtual panels with hiring managers and they partner with employers, like a couple solar companies, the Virginia Conservation Network, and, as I mentioned –  with Microsoft. These partnerships give members direct connections to job opportunities. They also do direct student outreach at career fairs and host networking events in the DC area. 

About 30 people showed up to BlackOak’s first in-person event. Wes could feel the energy – he could feel that the community they’d hoped to build – it was already happening. 

Wes Gobar: 

Everyone all had the same realization of, like, I wish that I had had this earlier. People were also making connections at sort of a mile a minute. Oh, I work in here and we need to talk about these water issues. I'm, you know, at EPA or I'm at this, you know, government sector. And   I think a lot of the cross-sectoral conversations and also just people just making new connections, like while they're in person, as well as the joy they're getting from being around also like other Black environmental professionals and advocates and organizers and students -- and that has been really fulfilling to be able to see that in person.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

And a huge hole they are starting to fill is networking – which is, as you know, SO critical for standing out among a stack of applicants. Trust me on this one, I manage a global professional network. In the sustainability field, which in many ways still feels like a small world, it is what you know but it’s also who you know.  

Wes Gobar: 

The most important thing for me is relationship building because that's how I've gotten most of my jobs is through relationships and not just sort of being able to apply somewhere cold. 

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

This is especially true for things like internships on Capitol Hill -- which are often crucial for a career in politics or policy. 

Wes says that he was not only lucky just to get an internship on Capitol Hill with the Congressional Black Caucus -- but also that they provided a stipend and housing. Many internships pay nothing. Few offer housing. 

And the reality is, it's just so hard to even get an unpaid internship without being well-connected -- unless you have a family member or friend who can pull strings for you.

So if you don’t know anyone who can put in a good word for you and if you can’t afford to work an unpaid internship, what are you to do?! 

This cold reality closes the door for so many who could be the next superstar because they can’t get the experience they need. This is especially true for people of color trying to enter many of these white-dominated fields.

That’s why BlackOak opening up access to support and information about internships, jobs and networking is so important in securing a just transition to the green economy that we need to tackle climate change. 

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

One of the most important things BlackOak Collective provides is community. That might sound simple but it’s not. Wes says, it’s one thing to help get people of color green jobs. It’s another to get them to stay. 

Wes Gobar: 

Retention is a big piece of this, right. If you are just kind of alone -- you know, again, you're that island and you feel like you have that, all that pressure on you and you don't have that outside community, people are gonna continue to cycle in and out of environmental work. We see people going to toxic work environments sometimes, or going into other work environments when they're not prepared and then completely cycling out of just the environmental movement as a whole. And these are people that we really need their work and their genius and the time and their effort, but they get turned off. 

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

We talked with a BlackOak Collective member who said just that. Her name is Jasmine Gil. We caught up with her on Zoom. Jasmine joined BlackOak after going to college with one of Wes’s co-founders, Sarah Nesbit. When she first heard about the new group, she was thrilled. 

Jasmine Gil: 

This is something that's so needed. Me and Sarah connected a lot/because her and I are two Black women in the environmental space from South Carolina. And that is extremely rare. 

And the environmental movement, the default has been white for very long -- for a very long time. And so that was no exception to my last job. There were so many things, so many last straw moments that I had with that job. 

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

This job was one Jasmine took right out of college. She had her sights set on law school but needed to work first. So she took a job with a conservation group in South Carolina. After working there for four years, she applied for a promotion. 

She didn’t get it.

That was a blow.  

And then came -- as Jasmine says -- the final straw. Even though she didn’t get the promotion, she was expected to directly help the new hire to do the job. HR told her…

Jasmine Gil: 

And we think she could really benefit from your knowledge. And it was -- it was like mind blowing to me that it was expected of me to give someone else my resources and knowledge that I had accumulated and that I had earned and be expected to stay within this box. And I knew from that moment like, and many other moments, that that was not the place for me.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

Jasmine wanted to GROW in her career -- to not be boxed into the role of an assistant forever.

She knew she needed to leave. But what would be next? Jasmine was terrified.  

Thankfully, Sarah at BlackOak Collective, was ready to help. 

Jasmine Gil: 

And when I finally had my final moment of, this is it, I can no longer do this. She was ready to stand in to say, let's get you where you need to be. What do you want for your career in the future? Where do you see yourself, you know, in this movement? And how can BlackOak help support you in getting there?

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

BlackOak Collective jumped in to help Jasmine figure out she wanted to work in policy and that she wanted help tell stories of people directly affected by climate change and pollution. Her new job search took two years. And Jasmine almost gave up. After her last job, she had no self-confidence. Maybe environmental work ISN’T for me, she thought. 

But Sarah pushed Jasmine to apply for jobs she never would have dared to on her own. And that push made all the difference. I’m happy to report that Jasmine has been working for a year at Climate Power, an environmental policy organization. She manages their storytelling campaigns. 

Jasmine Gil: 

And now that I look back on it, I think about how pivotal that was for me, because I was really in a poor mental space. And had it not been for that sort of support, I definitely would not be here. I always give credit where credit is due. And they deserve all the credit for being that sort of resource. 

It really feels like a best friend that’s carrying you through this huge hurdle. And so had I not had that connection to Sarah and had that connection to BlackOak to make me realize you deserve to be in this space, this is a poor work experience, and we're gonna help you find a better one where you can truly embrace the passions that you care about and also grow and thrive and actually enjoy your work. Had it not been for them advocating for that and pushing me to continue to be in this space, I don't think I would have continued being in the climate movement.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

As BlackOak Collective connects job seekers to resources and opportunities, they are able to keep a pulse on green jobs that are here and coming around the corner. So I asked Wes to look into his green jobs crystal ball…

What's one job that doesn't exist now, but that we need, um, maybe it won't exist for five years or 10 years. It could even be wacky and kind of out there. 

Wes Gobar: 

I have like three answers, so I'll just -- but like.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

Okay. Bring it on. 

Wes Gobar: 

The most immediate would be a civilian climate core. And this is regardless, you know, of whether you are of different documentation status, if you are formerly incarcerated, you know.  And these are pathways to real union careers. This is putting people to work on sustainable agriculture and greening their communities, on building out solar and clean energy, on doing environmental restoration. The parts of the clean economy that exist now and need more work.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

Wes also sees a huge change in the food and agricultural careers -- which make up nearly a quarter of all emissions. Sources say we only have 50-60 years of top soil left!

Wes Gobar: 

So we're gonna need to put a lot more people in hydroponics, in aeroponics and like agrovoltaics. You can grow food without soil. And you can also grow food right alongside solar panels in soil. So like growing with water and growing with air. And it's not just sort of like being on the ground, picking it. Robotics and programming. That’s gonna be super important. And there ’s kind of a role for everyone in it because there’s like comms and marketing jobs, etc. 

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

I mean, farmers are just gonna look so different for my kids. They're -- when they think of a farmer, they're not gonna think of old McDonald.  It's amazing how fast that space is changing. 

Wes Gobar: 

Another thing is fossil fuels have not only invaded our lungs, but also our blood stream, through plastic and then like literally killing us. We probably need more doctors actually to help people mitigate a lot of the impacts of the environmental injustices and the fossil fuel economy on actual health.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

I love it. I love the creativity, but the creativity that, and it sounds a little wacky -- it's truly rooted in reality. And I think we will come to know these jobs and our listeners should be prepared for these jobs in the very near future.

One hot Sunday in the summer of 2020, the environmental community had a victory – one they NEVER expected. Dominion and Duke Energy pulled the plug on the Atlantic Coast Pipeline. The companies said, a string of legal challenges by protesters made the project too costly and uncertain.****** 

An usual coalition of groups  not normally on the same side of an issue, all protesting the pipeline. Perhaps the most vocal and effective opponents? Protesters from Union Hill, according to the environmental and climate justice chair of the NAACP.

That victory proves both the power – and the necessity – of everything Wes Gobar and BlackOak Collective are working for: diversifying the environmental workforce, and bringing together people fighting for racial justice with those who are fighting for the environment.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

Now it’s time for Ask Yesh, where I help you with your biggest green career challenges. If you have a question write to me on Twitter, my handle is Yesh Says. And use the hashtag Ask Yesh. And if you forget this, it's in our shownotes.

I recently heard from a listener who has a job but doesn’t know how to advance in their career.  Here’s what they wrote:  Is grad school essential to advancing my sustainability career?

This is a big question, no matter what field you’re in. I love that this listener is thinking this way because no matter what, the sustainability workforce needs to keep leveling up. One thing I know for sure is that to tackle this crisis we need to adopt a growth and learning mindset because the challenges ahead of us are going to change and we’re going to need to keep meeting the moment. 

Back to the question, to go to grad school or not go to grad school.

First of all, let’s acknowledge that going to grad school is a big time commitment and big investment. There are a lot of benefits to going to grad school above and beyond studying, including the gap that Wes and his co-founders are filling, building a professional network. If you have the time and the money, yes, I think grad school is worth it. But is it essential to advance? Absolutely not. 

There are loads of ways to build your sustainability skill set and network. Sustainability certificate programs are a great way to go -- less time commitment, less expensive and are often geared toward people who are also working. 

Alternatively, or in concert you could join organizations like ISSP, which is the International Society of Sustainability Professionals where you can level up your skills through their virtual trainings and connect with their global network members. If you’re in a big city, you’ll definitely find organizations that offer continuing education and networking. In Chicago, we have several, like the Illinois Green Alliance. 

I know, I am giving you that annoying answer which really isn’t decisive. What I’m saying is, that there isn’t a “right way” and I’ve seen people succeed on both paths.

And to let you know, since I first talked with Wes, he actually left his job at Evergreen Action, the policy group, to start grad school this fall at Yale School of the Environment. He had considered going to law school. Luckily, some mentors asked him, “You sure you’re ready?”

I am so, so glad that Wes had some mentors in his life telling him to wait! I 100 percent agree. Folks should spend time in the workforce BEFORE going to grad school. I went straight from undergrad to grad school in nonprofit management. And while I loved it and learned a lot, I have often reflected that I didn’t absorb its full value because I didn’t yet have any real experience in the working world. 

I LOVE answering questions like these! So please DO write to me on Twitter! My handle again is Yesh Says.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

And that's all for this episode of Degrees.

Make sure to listen and follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. And  share this podcast with a friend so you can both tune in each week and hear how you and your communities can collectively help fight climate change. And learn where the jobs are and how you can make a difference. 

On the next episode of Degrees…What about the wildfires?! I talk with Forest Service fire ecologist Frank Kanawha Lake about the changes we NEED in land management to help prevent devastating wildfires. He’s bringing indigenous fire practices to the Forest Service -- after they were banned for over 100 years. 

Until then, check out our Green Jobs Hub to find all the resources to jumpstart your green job career search. 

Degrees is presented by Environmental Defense Fund. Amy Morse is our producer. Podcast Allies is our production company. Tressa Versteeg and Elaine Grant worked on this episode. Rye Taylor is our audio engineer. Our theme music is the song Shame, Shame, Shame by Lake Street Dive. And I’m your host, Yesh Pavlik Slenk. But the foundation of the show, folks, is you. Stay fired up y’all.

[MUSIC]

Change is coming, oh yeah

Ain’t no holding it back

Ain't no running 

Change is coming, oh yeah!

Yesh Pavlik Slenk: 

And that’s all for this episode of degrees

Make sure to listen and follow on --  Oh wait, I am starting at the bottom. Bluh-Uh. alright. [laughs] 

Ba-doo-doo. Okay. Here we go, here we go! [laughs] We have fun.

Degrees is produced with Podcast Allies. The artwork is by illustrator Bee Johnson. Degrees theme music is by the amazing band Lake Street Dive. We love their powerful video and song Making Do, all about climate change.